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January 6, 2008 / lazybug

Banned Without Proof

Procter gave a marathon six-and-a-half hour hearing to Harbhajan, who denied the charge and was supported by skipper Anil Kumble, Sachin Tendulkar, manager Chetan Chauhan and media manager M V Sridhar during the deliberations.

Procter also heard Symonds, who was backed by Australian captain Ricky Ponting, Adam Gilchrist, Matthew Hayden, Michael Clarke along with team manager Steve Bernard, who attended the hearing to testify against the Indian spinner.

The only reason I can see why the verdict went against Harbhajan is that India had 2 witnesses while the Aussies had 4.

P.S. Where were the umpires?

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35 Comments

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  1. JB / Jan 7 2008 12:00 am

    The only reason Harbhajan was suspended was because he called Symonds a “Monkey”.

    Are you saying that it is ok to say it if the Umpires don’t hear it? Are you suggesting that Symonds is a liar?

    Lazybug, you and I have spoken about these issues before. If it was an Indian that was abused I think your attitude would have been completely different.

  2. arvind / Jan 7 2008 4:00 am

    its really ridiculous to ban a player by taking the word of a opposite team player..
    they are clearly biased in this issue..
    but i thing BCCI’s stronghold will surely bring harbajan out of it..

  3. lazybug / Jan 7 2008 5:17 am

    JB,

    Are you telling me that Tendulkar is a liar? Let’s keep the players out of it for the moment. There’s something called a ‘procedure’ which has to be followed. The fact is the umpires did not hear anything. But their words were not considered. What explains that? If only player witness is considered, then the on-field umpires could as well be removed.

  4. lonewolf / Jan 7 2008 5:34 am

    JB: How about in the next match Sachin Tendulkar accuses Ricky Ponting of calling him a ‘nigger’ and, well, the umpires haven’t heard it of course, but then I guess nobody will do anything to Ricky Ponting, because, hey… he is an Australian!

    Herschelle Gibbs was suspended for talking about Pakistani fans for *ONE TEST* that too with solid proof – his racist comments were caught on tape.

    And now, we have a bunch of racist fix-the-appropriate-charges-yourself jerks, who make and twist the rules accordingly, banning Harbhajan for THREE matches?

  5. arvind / Jan 7 2008 6:24 am

    @ jb
    ofcourse its ok if the umpires or other players dont hear it..
    these things happen in the ground..
    the australians are known for their sledging then any other country.,…
    they say much more than the word “monkey”
    they say a lot like “mo**** fu**** ..they also get caught and the refree’s dont do anything..
    and you are saying that if that was an indian who was abused then also we would have same opinion..
    /indians do face comments..and indians are least to do.. the only indian who shows aggressoin is srishanth and that too creates a surge world wide..
    different rules for different countries..this is not fair..
    Australians clearly have gone down in the eyes of the world..their was no point in standing when clark was out..that was clear ..

  6. JB / Jan 7 2008 6:42 am

    so if I understand what you guys are saying….

    “if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it”….it didn’t fall!

    Grow up guys.

    I can understand criticism at the umpires and disapointment at some bad decisions. But other than that, you lose my symphathy.

    Sledging is differen’t from Racism. Perhaps you would like it that no one talks to each other on the field at all?

  7. lazybug / Jan 7 2008 7:04 am

    JB,

    I understand what you are saying. My question is regarding the procedure followed by the match referee. He had admitted that there was no proof against harbhajan. In such a scenario it’s one man’s word against the other. So if you say to me that Symonds is saying the right thing but Sachin isn’t, then I have all the right to feel aggrieved about it.

    If the umpire had taken Sachin’s word for it, would the aussies have accepted the verdict? Surely not. It’s the procedure that is at fault.

  8. JB / Jan 7 2008 7:55 am

    Personally I would have accepted the decision. I think that calling someone a “monkey” isn’t really that serious and Symonds should grow up. But then again, I don’t know how he feels, maybe he has ever right to be upset?

    I don’t want these issues in cricket at all.

    The latest I have heard is that the Indian team has suspended the tour until the appeal is heard. Also Hogg has been reported for abusive language.

    These are very unfortuante developments on all fronts.

  9. arvind / Jan 7 2008 8:29 am

    @JB
    you mean to say that if some body says Moth*** Fu**er its ok but if somebody calls anybody monkey it becomes racism ..
    what kind of rule is that..
    monkey is a word here that is even used hoese hold just for teasing how come it comes under racism..
    IT all depends on how you percieve things ..
    what if the tree hasn’t fallen at all ..

  10. JB / Jan 7 2008 8:34 am

    Arvind,

    I basically said it is up to Symonds whether or not Monkey is racist. How would I know?

    What I do know is that at the beginning of the serious it was agreed that the word wouldn’t be said. And it was.

    What if a woman is raped with no witnesses?

  11. assemkhan / Jan 7 2008 8:35 am

    convicting Harbhajan and letting go of Hogg itself is racism, AUSSIES are soooo mean, they can do anything to win, thats poor, they dont belv in fairplay, can u imagine what they wud have done if their plyr was banned fr 3 matches?

  12. arvind / Jan 7 2008 8:41 am

    that what bothers me.. if somebody uses a word monkey against a australian ..they create a big issue..
    thats why they agreed that it would not be used..
    and you are again again coming to the same point
    IF harbajan has done it then i agree 3 match ban is ok but what if he hasn’t …
    what if Aussies are just goofing around… I am using ‘If ” i am not confirming it…
    but this is not the way how justice is done.. you would see the reppurcussions of such type of decsions later..anybody would lodge a complaint against anyone..
    thats what i am trying to say..
    its not fair that to compromise 100 innocent people by punishing one culprit if he is “one”

  13. lazybug / Jan 7 2008 8:42 am

    JB,

    Proof is vital any court hearing. How can you trust Symonds and co.’s words and not trust Tendulkar’s words? Isn’t the process flawed?

  14. arvind / Jan 7 2008 8:42 am

    women are being raped without leaving any evidence are they being charged ..no..
    we are deviating completely from what we intend to discuss

  15. JB / Jan 7 2008 8:50 am

    Lazybug and Arvind,

    You are right, let’s stay on topic.

    Here is the facts as I understand them.

    1) Symonds claimed he was called a Monkey.
    2) Symonds told Ponting who was obliged by the ICC to tell the umpire, which led to proceedings.
    3) 6 hours of evidence are held and a guilty version is found. Players leave at 2.30am (or around there)
    4) An appeal is launched and the tour suspended until its result. (does a further guilty verdict mean the tour is off? – is that blackmail?)

    Now, I wasn’t there. But it seems to me that over a 6 hour meeting a lot of this stuff was considered by indepenent panel from the ICC. Therefore I cast him guilty.

    Where exactly do you disagree with my thoughts on this?

  16. lazybug / Jan 7 2008 8:53 am

    Here: 3) 6 hours of evidence are held and a guilty version is found. Players leave at 2.30am (or around there)

    What evidence? The guilty version was arrived at, not found, based on assumptions.

  17. JB / Jan 7 2008 8:56 am

    How do I know what evidence. To my knowledge it hasn’t been made public. Why do you think that 6 professionals who are in possession of all the facts have made a stupid decision? Afterall, they have the benefit of the replay.

  18. arvind / Jan 7 2008 8:58 am

    @ jb
    india has threatened to call only if bucknor stays..there’s is nothing watsoever wiht the harbhajan’s ban
    No evidence is present except the statements from symonds himself and hayden.
    6 hours …shit??? thats what i think about those 6 hours..
    do you think there was that much to discuss that long with no umpires in the scenario ,tendulkars staement also being ignored what could have occured their..

  19. JB / Jan 7 2008 8:59 am

    oh – I don’t know why I said 6 profesionals. I don’t know how many where there.

  20. JB / Jan 7 2008 9:01 am

    Arvind,

    That is not what they are saying here.

    Anyway, I am sorry but I am off.

    Lovely to talk to both of you. We are going to have to disagree to disagree. I hope he gets off because he’s a great bowler (and he’s the only guy you have that can get Ponting out). I hope that he and Symonds get to together and put this behind them.

    I fear that that won’t happen.

  21. lazybug / Jan 7 2008 9:04 am

    JB,

    Procter admitted there was no evidence. The Umpires’ words are final in such matters where there is no other proof. They did not hear anything. Any other process would entail putting one man’s words against another’s. That is not how justice is delivered. Any where.

  22. lazybug / Jan 7 2008 9:05 am

    JB,

    Good to talk to you too. As for getting Ponting out, from now on every Indian bowler will look to get him out with added enthusiasm.

  23. JB / Jan 7 2008 9:07 am

    yes, the USA.

    See ya Mate.

  24. arvind / Jan 7 2008 9:11 am

    @jb
    see ya..
    nothing personal ..good that its the end of this topic…Chao
    @lazybug
    nice being in ur blog..
    i would blogroll you

  25. lazybug / Jan 7 2008 9:15 am

    Arvind,

    If any thing, this is just the beginning for a lot of things.

    Thank you for adding me to the blog roll. I shall reciprocate similarly.

  26. arvind / Jan 7 2008 9:24 am

    i would be glad..
    actually i meant the end of the heated discussion here..
    😛

  27. Ottayan / Jan 7 2008 10:21 am

    LB,

    You really had a discussion. I am sorry to have missed it.

  28. lazybug / Jan 7 2008 10:27 am

    I think he’ll be back, Ottayan. You can make your point(s).

  29. lonewolf / Jan 7 2008 3:00 pm

    JB: Your analogy of a woman being raped and Symonds being called a monkey is weak.

    Anyway, if a woman is raped, there’s evidence left behind, like semen, hair, scratches and other tiny forensic stuff containing DNA. Unless the rapist is very meticulous about his/her operation, it will be possible to pinpoint him/her to the crime.

    You may compare it to Gibbs being caught on mic with the racist comments he made, if you’re talking about solid proof.

    But in this case, its a decision made against one man solely on the words of another man. And this decision is well, scroll above for what I mean.

  30. vinay / Jan 7 2008 3:04 pm

    It is by default that that Asian teams gets penalized whenever there is a rift with a white nation.

    We cannot do anything except shouting and burning effigies of the culprits. The Bakwaas BCCI should be banned by the players.

    Meanwhile, kudos to the Indian players for behaving like real gentlemen against several mental men.

  31. Yashashwini Y P / Jan 7 2008 4:53 pm

    Boys boys, it isn’t possible that a woman is raped and no evidence is left behind.

    Oh shit, that point’s already made.

  32. Liju Philip / Jan 8 2008 5:23 am

    India was playing against the Aus team + 2 umpires on the field + 1 neutral umpire + 6 wrong decisions. No wonder Aus won the match.

    No Zaheer, Pathan, Sreesanth. Without a good fast bowler, we managed to put aus totally on the back foot and i think India did a great job on a bouncy sydney pitch.

  33. JB / Jan 8 2008 6:30 am

    Liju,

    Agreed. Full credit to the Indian cricket team for putting a real fight up to the Aussies. The Australians didn’t deserve that win and were very lucky.

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